ADORIAN CATECHISM PART 1 NATIVE STATE 9 July 2004 Copyright (C) 2004 Homer Wilson Smith Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes. ((Editor's comments in double parentheses - Homer)) ((This is a transcript of a recorded phone conversation between myself and Enid Vien. This is the first in a series of attempts to go over the Adorian catechism for agreements and disagreements between us, a technical collaboration if you will. Adore stands for A Divine Operating Religion of Excellence of which parts can be found at www.adore.com built by Christine Nostrand.)) OK, today is July 9th, 2004. So as I said, the catechism seems to exist as jig saw puzzle pieces, and each piece has a title, and most of these pieces have some page or another, or multiple pages in Adore, written back in 1985, back in its baby phase, and then a lot of text written later in the archives as the ideas matured and I did battle on Clear-L with most of this stuff. Much of Adore is also counter opposed to everything else in the world that anybody ever taught me, ((except LRH)), and that comes across in its concepts, in that you can see for most of these concepts there is a counter concept to which it is fighting. Which means that we need to pay close attention to some of this stuff to make sure its not just creating another ridge. Adore is basically co heretical with Christianity, and pretty much in alignment with Scientology ((fundamentals)), and all the other clearing technologies. But you can still get into some serious arguments with even scientologists, you know, you know how that goes. ((As for Christianity, Adore says that if you threw away everything that made Christianity a different religion from all the other religions of the world, you would have a good religion. However we will leave that alone for now :) )) Ok, so the first jigsaw puzzle piece is called Native State. And that's I guess what I would like to discuss today with you is just exactly what the nature of native state is, and in particular the change from native state to the first set of states after native state, and what that stuff is like. All right, so, Ron said that native state was some kind of total knowingness. Which is interpreted by a lot of people to mean that the being has infinite awareness, infinite consciousness, even if its not of something, just consciousness. Awareness of awareness as sufficient communication. Adore disagrees with this. Adore says that the top dicom is To Manifest and To Not Manifest. and consciousness is a form of manifestation. Therefore if one is to take this literally, the very top state would be one of no manifestation at all, which would be one of sleep. Adore uses the idea that the world is a dream, just as an idea, an awful lot, because it considers that the world is a hologram and that the external physical realities are no more or less real than they are when we are asleep in a dream. And so, Adore basically says that you are either asleep or you are dreaming, and at the very top you have the Big Snooze, which is the Eternity of No Manifestation, and then below that you have manifestations where people have things that they are conscious of, including themselves, the stuff they make, other people, and things they share with other people, and it includes space and time. Do we have any immediate disagreement with that? Enid: No not exactly, the total knowingness that Ron talked about, that other fellow that wrote Scientologie also talked about, which is kind of an interesting point. I don't know if it is of any use, but it might be interesting to look at. OK, Adore has a very clear definition of that particular 'total knowingness': the being in the native state is capable. It has potential, it does not have to learn how to do what it knows how to do, but it doesn't have a word knowledge of it, or a know-about knowledge of it or a postulated knowledge of it, it can just do it. And the thing it can just do is, it can wake up, it can make stuff, it can alter-is stuff, it can make stuff persist, and it can make stuff vanish. And it doesn't have to think about it, it just knows, it is an absolute expert at doing all that. And it knows how to get into communication with other beings, and all this stuff is second nature to it because it is what it DOES. And in that sense it is a total knowingness. In the sense of does it know every digit of PI out to the last infinite digit? Well Adore has a specific answer to that also, which is, once it has created a universe, and in that universe, once it has computed the digit out to 20 billion places, it knows the digit out to 20 billion places. But in its native state it doesn't know all the digits of pi. ((It doesn't know any of the digits of pi.)) So it doesn't have all this know about data of the universe as it exists now, or any universe that has ever existed before or will. It's just a total knowingness in terms of operating, and maybe total knowingness is a bad term for it. I am not really sure what Hubbard meant by it. I know he talked about at the top you have Knowingness, and below that you make the thing and you don't know anything about it and that's as-isness, and then you know something about it, and that's alter-isness, and then you go on and you play with it and that's isness etc. (( KNOW Native State Big Snooze Not Know As-isness Vanishing Truth Know About Alter-isness First Lie Play Is-ness Persisting Truth False Know About Alter-isness Second lie. Play Is-ness Persisting Lie. Occlude Not-Isness Vanishing Lie. What does he KNOW in Native State? He doesn't know anything in specific, he just knows how to operate the states below that with perfection. In this sense KNOW means ABLE and doesn't preclude the actual state of the thetan to be one of absolute sleep.)) So at the very top you haven't even made anything yet so there is nothing really to know. So the only thing he can know is how to make things, but not anything specific about what is going to be made or has been made. Can we agree with that at all? Enid: Yeah, as a matter of fact that is pretty much what I think. OK, good. Now, one of the reasons that Adore believes in this Snooze bit, is because I want to go to sleep so badly! The problem is the being is trying to go to sleep in time, in space time. He is trying to move away from the things that are impinging on him, and impingement is one of these words that is probably a jigsaw puzzle piece that we will get back to later, but has the word IMP in it, and Adore is fascinated by words that have the word IMP in them. The being has created a series of impingements and now can not escape them, and so he wants to find a corner of space time where he can escape them. But you can only escape impingements for a while in space time, eventually they come after you and find you. So really to have a place of no impingements you would have to a place of no space time. Any state of ON-ness ((being ON)), of manifestation, is a form of being impinged upon even if its by your own awareness and your own consciousness and your own creations. And so Adore insists upon a cycle of off and on, off and on, and that fits the cycle of Manifest and UnManifest. The off is the Big Snooze, and the on is anything that is not Big Snooze. A hell is defined as anything that is on forever in time. A temporal foreverness. Even if its a positive pleasure, forever and ever and ever and ever, and ever and ever, its a hell. Because after a while the being will begin to resent it. Because he wants to go to sleep, he's sick of pleasure. And if he can't go to sleep, if he can't turn it off, then he's in a hell forever. Thus if there is going to be some kind of Heaven forever, the only kind of forever it could be is the forever of an eternal sleep. Not a temporal sleep where he can be impinged upon. That's ultimately where the forevers are acceptable, where you have a forever of nothingness and its an eternal forever rather than a temporal forever. An eternal forever of nothingness is eternal life, that's actually eternal home. A temporal forever of nothingness is death. That's where "you die and that's it bud", and space and time go on without you. ((Temporal forever of on is hell forever. Temporal forever of off is death forever.)) So you have these two temporal forevers that people are swapping back and forth between IN TIME, because they can't conceive of the Eternal. And they are living immortally in time, and its getting bad and getting bad and getting bad, so they try to die now, they would rather die forever in time, than live another day in time. And so they become mortal in their own view. Now of course they can't really become mortal, you can't die in time, you can only pretend to do so, or you can only become something that is mortal in time like a body, an organization of stuff, and if they can force themselves to believe that they are a body, an organization that can die, hard enough, they can believe that they WILL die. And that gives them the relief, while they are still alive, that they are looking for that this is all going to end one day. Of course when they do die, they are still there, and they gotta do it all over again. ((This is an addiction to death. It kills the pain of life, even just the looking forward to death is like looking forward to Christmas morning and all the presents as a kid.)) And so they alternate being sick of living forever ((in time)) and being sick of dying forever ((in time)) and they flip back and forth between the intensely religious immortal valence, and the intensely irreligious ((meatball)) mortal valence. Because they are missing the third side which is being able to drop out of time, and not have a temporal forever of anything, either off or on, and have an Eternal forever of ((unimpingable)) sleep. Instead the being tries to enforce native state, sleep, in time. Do we have any disagreements there, or problems with that? Enid: I don't have any problems with it exactly, let me think about that a bit, we may come back to it. OK, so Adore says that therefore a being, because it wants to engage in cycles of manifest and unmanifest, and the cycles of manifestation are always time of some kind or another, space time, which may or may not be true, but let's just assume it is for the moment, we are talking about manifestations in space time, that the being therefore should not create anything that will last forever in time. Now one of the things that is not immediately apparent is that if you create A you have immediately limited yourself to the number of other things you can create because A is already sitting there in the middle of your battle field. And if you stick yourself with A forever, in time, then you have limited yourself to all the other things you can create that have to be basically consistent with A. Therefore, if you want to manifest all your basic creative abilities, you should never stick yourself with any one creation forever. Eventually you gotta be able to clean the slate, completely, and start off with another B in the center of things. Do you see that process? Enid: Yeah, I see how you are looking at that. So the creation of anything limits what you can create after that. And if you create something forever, then you have forever limited what you can create after that which means all of your potential is being wasted, because you can create an infinite number of different things. Therefore beings should not ever create anything that will last forever in time, and because his basic desire is manifest and unmanifest cycles, he would not. So you have should not and would not. OK, Adore goes one further step, it says, it says not only should not and would not, but he can't ((create something forever in time)). Because when he comes out of native state and he creates the concept of time, it is always as a while, a finite amount of time, no matter how long, but always countable. He can then alter-is the concept of the while to be infinitely long in order to get it to persist, but notice this creates an instant ARC break as it violates his sovereign desire. (("Majesty is the sovereign desire that desire not be sovereign for a while." - Adore)) And it is within that while that all creations take place. Therefore the being can not actually create an infinite number, this is another theorem that comes out of this, a being can not create an infinite number of something that is finite. In other words, if you have one marble, he can not create an infinite number of marbles. He can create as many as he wants, and he can create 10 times that, and 10 times that, and 10 times that, but its always countable. He can't have an infinite amount of marbles. Time being consecutive countabilities ((seconds etc)) he can't have an infinite amount of time. Space, being countable little cubic inches going off in all directions, he can't have an infinite amount space. He can have as much as he wants though. Without any problem. Since you can't have an infinite amount of time, you can't have a hell that lasts forever in time, you can't have a heaven that lasts forever in time. You can't have anything that lasts forever in time. Therefore all games must end one day, that have been created in any particular while. Enid: Right, that's very clear. Ok, therefore there is no hell forever for anybody, no matter what you have done, you can not go to hell forever. You can't go to heaven forever either. "As for heaven and hell the bad news is that heaven is empty. the good news, is so is hell." - Adore The next thing that Adore says about the very top is that once a game, once a space time while, has been completely and totally as-ised, its gone. The guy has no memory of it hanging around, the guy when he wakes up from native state, its like the first time. He knows it isn't the first time, but he has no memory of prior times, he doesn't want it, it's all gone, its as-ised, poof gone. He then creates a universe that lasts for a very long period of time, that has all this detailed memory in it, but once the whole universe ends, and everybody leaves it and that universe is over, and it is as-ised by everybody who ever entered it, there is no data left, there is no accumulating knowledge or wisdom or lessons or anything that make the static better for having been in that game. And therefore the purpose of these games is NOT to learn lessons, whatever the purpose may be. ((The game itself maybe a game of learning lessons, or unlearning lessons if you want to go OT, but the final end result of having played the game is not any lesson learned, but is in fact nothing there at all, it never happened. That's an as-isness you see.)) And so far the only purpose I have stated is to manifest. To manifest and unmanifest and exactly what the guy is manifesting, all right, let's get into that. What is he manifesting. Now certain people like Speaker, as best as I can determine, will tell you that the being is willing to manifest anything. And that you should be willing to manifest anything. Adore strongly disagrees with this. Only within the limits of shouldn't, wouldn't and couldn't, he will be willing to manifest anything that he can and that he would and that he should. But I suggest that if you take a look at what is actually being manifested you will find that its art. ((That's what the being would could and should manifest.)) The being creates harmonies and disharmonies, dischords and resolves, placed together in such a way that if you can see the whole picture, from beginning to end, its a good story. And so we have the definition of God as an Author, and he writes a story and he jumps into it and plays it as one of his own characters. And which character he plays doesn't matter. Maybe he starts off as good characters and they all decay into bad characters, and maybe he starts off as bad and they all decay in to good, hypocrisy is pretty thick in this place. But goodness for the character is not goodness for the Author. If an author wrote a story where only good characters existed and only good things happened, no one would ever read the thing right? So, if we can understand the difference between author and character we can understand the difference between goodness as a creator and goodness as creature, and its pretty much that simple. The Creator is divine, the creature is holy or unholy as the case may be. :) If you want to be the Creator you have to be the Author, you have to act as an Author would act. If you want the power of an OT you have to act from the motivations of an OT. And the motivations of the OT are the motivations of the author, which are to better the story. The story can be bettered while you are in it. The original screen play as you pass through it can be changed. I can see all kinds of Bertrand Russell types saying "Oh my god Homer, that's such bull," but I mean its a nice idea and I think it works emotionally to some extent. Enid: Berty would have a cow. ((The issue is the true source of causality. People think that objects in the serial space time stream have causality between them, the ball bounces off the wall BECAUSE the wall exerts cause over the ball or they both exert cause over each other. Adore claims that this is an illusion as is all assignment of cause to anything in the space time stream. In fact it is the creator of the space time stream, call Source by Adore, and the static by Hubbard, that is cause of everything in the space time stream. So the static is causing both the ball and the wall to act AS IF they have cause between them, virtual cause, but at all times any kinetics going on in the world of motion is caused by the static at the top. In other words the illusion is that cause is serial between objects in the space time stream, when in fact it is parallel between the static and all the objects in the space time stream at once. The joke is that the source static can inject some of it self into many places in the space time stream, thus being able to affect things not only from the top down, but from the bottom up. Those injections of static are me and thee, the conscious unit, which spends most of its time pretending it is an object in the space time stream and thus acting in a causally serial manner, only causing when effected etc, but can in fact act in a causally parallel manner. Talk about OT.)) We are talking words that don't make any sense here, I mean how much of the universe is precreated, and how much you can change every time you pass through it, I don't want to get into that argument, I just want to get into what Adore is saying as a baby phase religion that can barely think beyond its own bottle, that God is Author, and people are author acting as characters, and that the goodness between them are not the same. "Virtue for the Creator is not virtue for the Creature" - Olaf Stapleton, Star Maker. Ok, at the top, the being has a state of total OKness, and this is like really, really, really, really, really important, because this is what everybody is seeking. This is a total resolution of all desires. The being at the top *HAS* everything that he wants, he's got options for what he wants to make, but he can make anything he wants, so like he has what he wants because richness is in options. He's also in an unspeakable state of absolute peace, so he has no need to make anything. You don't have to have built the empire, you just have to have the ability to build it, and man you have got that empire. The being is in a state of perfect accord, which means his fundamental desire and fundamental nature are in complete harmony with each other. That what is and what he wants are one and the same. The moment he wakes up he says, "Look at this, the best of all possible worlds," infinitely happy, alone, forever and beyond thank you. ((Whatever anyone thinks they are ever going to feel or have from attaining something in the space time, the native state being has forever for free in infinite quantity. Talk about happy. This is beyond happy, this is absolute peace forever for free. That is infinite havingness. This the "peace that passeth understanding." One may well ask why the native state being bothers to manifest anything then? Adore says because there is an impulse to manifest the havingness state of native state via losing it. The MECHANISM of beautiful illogic by which the thetan gets himself into states of loss ((any manifestation is a state of loss)) is an equivalent beauty to the peace at the top. So although HE doesn't have the peace any more, the universe still has it as a whole via his artful loss. "All suffering results from artful dodge." - Adore Its sort of like hanging one's self out to view at an art museum. They can't see him if he is asleep in native state. So he blows himself up into manifestation in an effort to convey what home is really like. The manifestation is the opposite in very aspect of what his home is. That's why its so funny. "Source sources what source is not." - Adore He wants to show the beauty of infinite peace, but can't, so he shows the beauty of infinite peace through infinite loss. It just so happens that the *MECHANISM* of loss reflects the beauty of the native state peace. This ain't no mere consideration, this is an AMAZING truth. So dig and don't leave it. The opposite of a God in native state is a meatball about to die forever in "time, stone and dust in the wind." *HE* can't see his own beauty while hanging on a cross in that art museum, if he did he would fall off it and go poof back to native state, but anyone else can who has the understanding, who can see the illogic of his ludicrous demise. Its a tragic-comedy the soul puts on for his audience, everyone else in the universe. Most of them are putting on their own, so they don't get it humor either, the halcyon and humor, but its there for all to see as they get out, not only their own but everyone else's who is still going on. The beauty and love of that humor is our eternal gift to each other. Eternality expressed in temporality. "Halcyon is high appreciation for ludicrous demise. Halcyon is bemused relief on the verge of time. The cold cruel wounds of winter are healed by the halcyon winds of summer." So its a way of sharing self with others in a way that can't be done in native state. Of course there is no need to do it in native state either, but "Class is prone to operating Majesty once in a while, but only through great responsibility.")) OK, so back to native state here. From that state of perfect accord, he then starts to create things. The creation takes place by mere consideration, in that in the mere considering of something it comes to be. He doesn't have a chance to pre judge it or to think what he wants to create before he creates it, unlike how things work down here on Earth. So in the mere consideration of something, he's got it. Now he doesn't necessarily get stuck with it. He can, if he decides that he doesn't want it, let go of it and its gone, because it is still an as-isness. He hasn't altered it yet to a point where he can't get rid of it. He's got veto power over anything that he makes. His veto is controlled by his appreciation of what he has created and willingness to view more. So he's in a state of total OKness, and as such he's also got total power, because he can create anything, he can create universes, its no problem to him to cast the mountain sideways because he is putting the mountain where it is. He just stops putting there and puts it somewhere else and there he's done it. "He who made it can approach unto it" - Book of Job, Bible. Now down at the bottom, he has created a state of the fundamental desires whatever they are, colored by the additions to his desires, because now he desires, food, clothing, shelter, sex, work, beauty, music, art, culture, everything that Freud called 'libido'. Libido is basically the impulse to create and enhance on all 8 dynamics. So the desire is very colorful rather than the fundamental desire for OKness. But his desire is in a collision with his world view, and although it doesn't look like it to us, his world view is actually creating the state of not havingness for him. This was in part intentional in order to make a game out of havingness to put time between desire and having, and part intentional to make the game very hard sometimes to win at all. So has created a game where he doesn't get merely by considering, although he is in fact getting that game merely by considering although it won't look like it to him. He may get a vision merely by considering, but he doesn't have merely by considering any more, and so now he's got to go out and do, that is what this universe is about, is what to do to bring about what you desire. And so you have a game, you have time is being used to come between the moment of desire and the moment of havingness. And that's what the game is, getting from desire to havingness. When people start to lose that game, they want to have more power, because they usually consider they are losing because they can't fight back hard enough. Life consists mostly of life fighting other life for survival. And eventually they want to have OT power back again, because they want to wipe out all the assholes in the world, and make a perfect civilization, and make everything great and have only good people around, and just write a terrible story, right? What they are doing is they are seeking OKness through changing the world as it is, by seeking power to change it. "If I could just change the world, everything would be OK again." But OKness doesn't come from having and using power, power comes from having OKness. So the minute that guy is sitting there in the space time continuum, and he says I don't like it as it is, I want it to be different, he has just made it a little more solid particularly if he is deadly serious about it, because that's NOT OKness you see? He has created a game for himself, because now its going to be a little harder to get to where he wants to go. The more solid it gets the more power he wants, the more unhappy he is with the power he has, the more he resents things as they are, more he has GOT to get to this other thing, the more solid it becomes, eventually he stops himself in space time glass where he can't move at all. And he is frozen there like an ant in amber for everyone to look at. All based upon being really pissed off that he can't get to where he wants and doesn't have enough power, and will never be OK with himself unless he gets to where he wants etc. And results in having no power, where you can't move at all and everything else is glass because you are trying to make things OK by having more OT or Author power. Your average human being, if you said to him, "if you could get out of your body, if you could move the marble on the table, if you could have telepathy, if you could kill at a distance, if you could go into other people's rooms and offices and observe, what would you DO with all that power?" They would immediately start listing how they would benefit themselves, their own body survival and mankind. Because that's what they want the power for, is basically to not play the game at the power levels they were given, but to break the rules of the game and survive anyhow. Because they are really deathly afraid of not surviving. They are so afraid of losing the game, they don't want to play the game, so any way to cheat or bypass the game becomes desirable. This after they designed the damn game for themselves in the first place. This of course will never work, the guy who wants to go OT, because he is trying to keep himself as a body alive forever is not going to work. The guy who wants biological immortality is a nut case, that's NEVER going to work. The only way they are going to get these powers back, aside from accepting full responsibility for the power levels they have, is to get to the OKness first which in fact comes from accepting that responsibility and understanding how and why one designed the game as one did in the first place. It will never happen on a protest. And then as the OKness comes on, every time its OK the mountain is there, they then have the ability to move it. Now isn't that a hoot? All this seeking for power is a complete trap if its based upon it is SERIOUSLY NOT OK the mountain is there. They want to help the world, they want to help the poor starving people in China, they want to help the Bangladeshis, they want to help the AIDS people, they want to help every poor dear innocent victim that has ever walked space time, all this suffering is NOT OK, NOT OK, NOT OK, NOT OK. Every morning they wake up and they are spewing psychic storm everywhere of NOT OK, NOT OK, and they are begging God to give them the ability to do something about it, and questioning God when he doesn't or doesn't handle it himself. That's not wanting to play, you see? They will tell you life is not a game, life is serious, GRRRRRR! You know what they mean by life is serious? Life is FOREVER! That's what they mean. You see that's dramatization, seriousness, importance, *PERMANENCE* and pain. Games are played with spirit of play, its OK that there is something you want to change, and with that OKness comes the power to change it, but little inclination to use that power as the game is already set and the being wants to play by the rules at hand than he wants to win or get rid of the game at any cost. Life on the other hand, for most people, is its not OK there is something to change, its not OK that the bangladeshis are all starving to death, no one would have *ASKED* for that in any game, you see? Total irresponsibility. Now he's begging God or the Author to DO something about it, and apologize for having allowed it to happen in the first place, and he wondering who or what is cause around here and why is it such an asshole! ((Adore's definition of religious insanity.)) The guy down deep knows that even if God did change it, answer his prayers he STILL would never forgive God for having created it in the first place awaiting his prayers. "What I gotta pray for things, for you, Mr. Omniscience, to know better?" And he falls down from there to believing that God doesn't exist, and boy is he gone at that moment. Because saying that God or Author doesn't exist, says that sentient Cause doesn't exist either, one that can be reasoned with, appreciated and embraced, or one that you can BE. People eventually succumb to 'embracing' cause, the cold dead physical universe of MEST by going into its valence and acting like it, ruthless, merciless, uncaring and unthinking. And 5 lifetimes later they are a stone at the bottom of the ocean. OK, there is a mechanism behind that and it has to do with these whiles. It has to do with forevers. Forevers are the single most important thing, Adore says, that you have to audit out of a case. Because they have to do with dramatization. Dramatization means bringing drama to, and drama basically a dicom to OKness. Drama something ain't OK. If you have a football game and you got the playing field and you got the ball, and you got the two teams, and you invite the other team onto the playing field to play against you, you have a state of total responsibility for ((the presence)) of both sides on the playing field. Both sides agree to come in, they shake hands before they start the game, they let their cheerleaders do their cheerleading half way between the game at the half time festivities, and at the end when the game is over they all walk past each other shake hands and they plan for the next game. This is the way games are played, its OK that the game exists, its OK that you are there, and its OK that the other guy on the other side is there, and its OK that you are going to play against each other. Notice each side wants to win, but in the end if they are honest about it, they want to play more. So its OK if they lose. Its NOT OK if they can't play. THAT's a disaster. You get this? So although it is tempting to say that for each side its NOT OK if the other side wins, its certainly OK for them to try to win. And frankly if they do win, well that's OK too, because there will be another game and we can all try again. Neither side loses the ability to play the game merely by losing one or more of them. Now let's say some guy on that playing field decides he doesn't like that other team being there. This is a real problem to him, so he puts a bomb in the ball and tosses it to the other side and blows them up and kills them. You see this guy is so afraid of losing the game, that he doesn't want to play, he wants to destroy the game. He's trying to 'win' by making the other side not exist at all. But if he wanted the other side to not exist why did he invite them in the first place? Doesn't make any sense does it? So maybe he thinks that someone else invited this other team in, and he was opposed to that decision, had nothing to do with it, was surprised by it, doesn't want to play them but has no choice, total irrespsonsibility etc, and so now he is going to 'deal' with the problem forever more. So the guy has fallen from responsibility for the other side, to no responsibility for the other side to trying to destroy the other side FOREVER. Which means I never want to play with you, I don't want to play you now, I don't ever want to play you again, ever, ever, ever, ever no matter what, and I don't want to HAVE ever played you in the past and I don't want you to have ever been here, or existed at all. You see, forever, forever, forever, forever. Now this happens in the good versus evil game, the good characters versus evil characters. Good people don't enjoy fighting evil, at least they won't admit they do, and maybe some of them will even say oh yeah, this is the purpose of life, the grandest game in the world is to crusade against the assholes, best rewards in the Heavens come from doing your best at this game etc. But if you ask them would you CREATE evil people in their absence so that you could fight them? They would say no. I don't want to fight evil, I don't want people to be evil, I don't want there to be evil ((so I have something to do when I get up in the morning)), I want a forever where there is no evil forever, forever, forever, forever. They really wish they wish there was no evil *FOREVER*. It's not good to want evil to exist, you see? So here you have a good person facing an evil person. And the good person wants the evil out of his game, the good person is not PUTTING the evil person there, not INVITING the evil person to the playing field, in order to then engage in a fight. He's saying that evil came by itself, I had nothing to do with it, I didn't invite him in, I didn't create him, I didn't make him evil, I don't want him here, I didn't write or agree to the rules of warfare between good and evil, show me the god damn invitation! And there is none as far as he is concerned. So he is fighting something that he didn't START, he's trying to STOP something that he didn't start, there is no start on this guy, all there is change and stop. He's not free to just let it be. And Hubbard says that people go insane at the moment they become totally devoted to stopping something, and the reason is because they ain't starting. If the guy really wanted to get rid of the evil person, he would start him twice, he would get a complete as-isness on having invited him in, and bang the evil person would be out of the good person's dream. But he is not doing that, so now he is stuck with the evil person. Now whatever he does from then on out to vanquish that evil, he is ultimately going to lose, because the worst he can do is scatter the evil person's parts to the wind, they will just regather as somebody else evil bigger and stronger. "Do not rejoice that you have crossed the seas and beat the beast, because the bitch is in heat again." - Poet. The point is, is that the good guy is dramatizing a forever on the evil guy. He is dramatizing, I want you to not exist forever, I want you to never have existed forever, and I want you to never exist again. And you are so evil, that I will NEVER forgive you, ever, ever, ever, no matter what. I just want you to not be. He is dramatizing... well look, he came into the time while with a circle of friends, and they are all holding hands and they are all saying "Yeah! Here we are!" Let's play a game, you be good and I be bad. You be black and I be white ((chess)). And then they all off to their corners and they go "OK Go!" and the game happens now. At the end of the game, they are all gonna be friends again, drinking lemonade, laughing it up, telling tall tales, recounting what happened, choosing sides again, making a better game, and that game ends and the next game starts. "This dream ends forever when the circle of friends are all holding hands again." - Adore This assumes of course that it always will, that any game will always end one day. Because all dreams have to end, all whiles have to end. The game players could not, would not have wanted it any other way, and thus total responsibility for creation of the game demands that the game is in fact this way. Each soul is like a multi headed coin, with many heads, but just one tail. It's convenient to forget that on one side we are same coin just because on the other side we are all different coins. Therefore the guy who is dramatizing forever on this evil guy is assuming that he will never ever have to hold hands with that guy and be friends again. You can't do this to another being without doing it to a part of yourself, because you and everyone else have a side that is One. And he is denying that he ever had any responsibility for being friends with that guy in the first place, inviting him into the game and choosing up sides. Every time a being denies responsibility for another player in the game, that's just one more section of the universe the denier loses total control over. Eventually they come after one. Since each being is in fact an entire universe unto himself, denying even one being is denying an entire universe of life. So when somebody is dramatizing a forever, they are violating the while as a physical fact, and they are violating their own Sovereign Desire, and thus they go down tone. Because you can't wish a forever off on another being without wishing a forever off on yourself because you are going to carry that forever that you wished off on another being, with yourself FOREVER. Five forevers from now, are you still going to be happy that guy you hated is still in hell forever? And therefore it sits on your playing field as an A around which everything you create must conform. You also can't wish a forever off on another being with destroying your own sovereign desire forever, because you are violating your own sovereign desire forever. Your sovereign desire is to have friends, is that "*ALL* should live forever and be my friend," and to play games for a while, and then to go back to sleep, *TOGETHER*. Hell is a kind of sleep together in time. Your bunk mates are the people you wished forevers on but you got there first. Hell is an enforced native state, and enforced basic truth IN TIME. Native state is sleep together forever for free, because you all laughed yourself to sleep in Eternity. "In hell people cry themselves to sleep forever. "In heaven people laugh themselves to sleep forever." - Adore. Sovereign Desire means you want it, you got it. This is Adore's way of saying that things are created in the mere consideration of them. It is also Adore's way of talking about the fundamental desires of the being which can not, would not and should not be changed or be any different. In other words the being doesn't desire just anything, he desires art, and art is not arbitrary, its mathematical harmonies, disharmonies, discords and resolves, and thus everything the being creates from the top on down flows from these sovereign desires, and arises because of these sovereign desires and is governed by these sovereign desires. The minute you say here is an asshole, and I want him to go forever, and ever and ever, you have just said that you can't have what you really want forever. To be with forever ((Eternally)) but apart for only a while. So as long as somebody is casting these forevers on other people, places or things, he immediately suffers the consequences of it himself, and that then generates the hells that he himself is living in and will end up in with greater clarity when he dies. You can't actually make another suffer a forever, you can only make yourself suffer a forever by wishing one off on another! You know they say hell is made of fire and brim stone, well let me tell you, hell is full of 'things' but has no light at all. You never know what's coming for you until it gets you, and you never know what it was after it has had its fill. So basically this is why Adore says that "The only people who go to hell forever are those who are wishing something or someone else into hell forever. They only go to hell forever for exactly as long as they continue to do that, and they can only continue to do that for a while." - Adore Do you want to know just exactly how long hell lasts when you die? There is your answer. For as long as you can stand it. For a while. Notice this applies not just to wishing hell or death or something bad forever off on someone, but wishing ANYTHING forever in time off on anyone or anything. And therefore 'There is peace in the thought that one day all men will attain the awakened state.' - Adore You follow this? Enid: Absolutely. Which is true, but now the guy has a whole track of people coming forward that he detests, that he wished never existed, don't exist, and never will exist, and never will exist again. And a whole mess of people feel exactly the same way about him. Talk about a karma group. And every one of these forevers that he is still pushing, is pushing his own sovereign desire into greater and greater apathy, and that is what he can't confront. It's the fact that he is not sovereign. That gives him the *WILLIES*. He will never be able to confront that, non sovereignty is not confrontable, period. The only way he can confront it at all is to recognize analytically that its not true that he isn't sovereign, and walk into each one of these dark spots with invisible things tugging at him, with a faith that it isn't true, that he CAN make friends with this thing no matter what it is, make it smile, make it laugh, enjoy the joke together, no matter what language, jokes are always the same, smiles are always the same, and one by one get these things out of the dark closet that he has made permanent enemies with. "Spot a sovereignty". "Spot a non sovereignty". Run to understanding. And so we have the definition of dramatization as importance, seriousness, *PERMANENCE*, which is the most important one, and pain. And seriousness blows off as humor, so when he finally gets the joke he played on himself which is this thing with forevers, he ends up in the blast of release which is the humor, and then it resolves into peace and snooze. And he goes basically back into a state of snooze on that particular guy, and there is no charge left. He has gone back to sleep with the guy. The guy is no longer a part of his karma group. And when he has gone back into a state of snooze on all of his forevers, he's not here any more. Or he can be if he wants to be. The call of humor can be pretty strong, its like the smell of coffee in the morning. "Halcyon is bemused relief on the verge of time." But he doesn't have to be, he can sleep in FOREVER ((Eternally)), and he knows he has to pretend a forever or two to stay in the dreamtime for long without waking at the first sneeze. OK, that's all I have to say for the moment on this. Enid: I followed all of it, and I don't really have a disagreement with with it. I think there is a probably a difficult getting this into a format that people can grasp it in. Well on Grade VI, we run "What are you dramatizing?", and if you define dramatizing as seriousness, importance, permanence and pain, what ever the items that come up, one can then start to run those 4 things on that item, until you get the God Postulate off and humor. And most people are good at this, they spot the item and they start laughing. Sometimes you can start laughing and you just have no clue why. ((Humor is the light at the end of the tunnel, the light that the Christians saw and 'comprehended it not'. The Christians said no way is God funny. God is SERIOUS!. Sin is SERIOUS! GRRRR! So they slammed the door shut on the light from there on out. It can be argued that humor is not at the top of the tone scale, and Adore has little argument with that. But its an awfully easy climb from humor to Eternal Omni Awesome Peace. In breath takes you to humor, out breath takes you to peace. And we have to admit that things would be a lot better if we could just get our pc up to Eternal Good Humor. Where breathing alone is sufficient reason to be. "Majesty is Eternal Good Humor born of Mastery of Songs of Sin and Hidden Joy. Master of Jest. JEST is Jokes of Eternal Self Treason. JEST is Justice of Eternal Self Truth. Sin-song is to sing another Source done wrong song. Sin-song is not sin as long as it is just song." - Adore Sin-song is seriousness and is a dicom to good humor.)) ARC breaks is a very hard level to run, I would guess because that is where most of these forevers are hiding, because its an ARC break with Sovereign Desire that's bothering the person. The 'sovereign burn'. He's been burned, and he knows it, and he KNOWS there is no getting over it. It is inconceivable to him that there is anything humorous about it, so he looks for OTHER solutions and never finds. ((However if he thinks about it for a moment he will see that humor is the only thing that will heal the burn. And here is where an application of a little faith is needed to keep looking until you find that humor. "Wit is intelligence, wit is laughter. Wit's End is the end of intelligent laughter." - Adore.)) And I have a feeling a lot of people don't make Grade III very well. Enid: I have always thought Grade III was inadequate and I run it very differently. Mine is better, but its not the whole answer. There is something here called the Doubt Effect, and the Adorian plate on it is 'Doubt is Self Casting'. To cast as in to cast a spell or to cast a fly fishing rod, or just to cast out and create out there. If you have a person sitting in the middle of eternity, just OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, for all of eternity to the left and all of eternity to the right, and in the middle of this eternity he suddenly gets the idea you know maybe I am not immortal. How's he gonna feel? He's going to feel terrible. All this OKness is suddenly going to become NOT OKness because he just violated his own sovereign desire. What he will then DO is take the intensity and disharmony of the negative feeling and use it as further evidence that he is right that he is not going to live forever. The emotions stirred up by the doubt act as proof that the doubt is correct! In that sense doubt is self casting. The immortal being considers for a moment that he is mortal, and he feels so bad, he thinks how could I feel this bad about being mortal, if it weren't actually true that I was. So once a guy falls for that he goes into a very fast dwindling spiral because there is no getting out of it, because he doesn't see what he is doing. He is knowing by emoting rather than knowing by knowing. He is knowing by being and effect of his emotions, rather than knowing by being cause, where knowing creates truth. He is taking the emotion and using it as evidence. What he will do from then on is, all right we have another one here we might as well talk about... If any time he has a question that is looking for an answer, which is a really foolish thing to be engaged in in the first place, and this is a whole another jigsaw puzzle piece that we will get into at another time, any time he is looking for an answer to a question and he does not know what the answer is, but he has a range of options, he will take the option that makes him feel the worst. The one that gives him the most certainty of badness, the thing that can hit him the hardest is the ruling idea. Because he is just sure that the loudest possible negative feeling is one that is true now. Because he has this doubt effect chain going on that is really nasty that has to do with doubting his own sovereignty. And doubting sovereignty, it creates a wall of, there's no words for it yet, the wall of bugs, the wall of fire, the wall of monster vibrations, whatever it is, the day that sovereignty went into doubt, it was self proving, that was the end of the being. Well it was the end of his native state for sure, and the beginning of his ever descending dreamtime. Everything else followed from then. And so he is still doing it, and so he is accumulating beliefs as time goes on that are the ones that make him feel the worst. And they get out of that at Grade III. At Grade III, like Hubbard says, the guy can finally find correct answers on the list, he won't just hand you the most ARC broken out list answer he can find and consider it the first item on the list. So it is very hard to list people who are not Grade III's, because they give whatever will crucify them the fastest. Humor never crosses their mind and is never used with the word truth in the same sentence. At Grade III, once they see the mechanism of doubt self casting, they won't accept the bad feeling answer, only the good humor feeling answer. They will keep going *HAPPILY* knowing that there is a good feel answer, until they find it, which is the correct answer on the list. And they will go forever until they get it because they know it is there, and they can usually get it pretty quickly because they don't have this problem of worrying all these other things to the bone that aren't good feel answers. You know, "lets see how bad I can make myself feel over this answer, maybe then I will see it is the correct item on the list." OK, well as I said that's about it for the moment. Enid: OK. It would seem that an approach could be made out of this. That's what I have been trying to do, is start at the top down, the distance between the top and where we are now is so great that I can't conceive the distance. So a lot of this stuff works in my dreams, but it doesn't necessarily work here. And I still think an auditing approach could be made to this so that somebody who is already fundamentally able and who is ready, could have a very fast and thorough clean up. So that he was back at that state of OKness again, and not dramatizing survival, survival, survival, offend and defend, offend and defend which gets him deeper into the game. Sometimes I feel that this game... have you ever in a swimming pool dove off the edge and they tell you to see how far you can glide? Its a test for how streamlined you can make your body and whether you know to put your head in the water instead of up and how to hold your feet, and the people who can glide the furthest are the people who are most efficient when they actually swim. Well I think this space time is like this, the game is, you come rushing into it with an enormous speed, and you know you are going to end up in glass at the end, but the person who ends up furthest in before he turns to glass is the one that wins. There is no real operating the seriousness, permanence and pain of this place and succeeding, because he is not PUTTING THERE what he is trying to change. And that's like the most important concept, if you just run on somebody what are you not putting there, I don't know if it would ever work. Probably kill him first. Perhaps run instead what are you putting there? But the guy is not putting there what he is trying to get rid of. So how can you get rid of it if you are not putting it there especially since the way to get rid of something is to put there again. Exactly as he originally did it, or agreed to it, or was willing to have it be, etc. Enid: It's exactly backwards to the way most people think. Yeah it was designed that way, that's the whole point. They come here to persist as long as they can. If they got it right, they would vanish and the game would vanish, and we wouldn't have the game. And so the backwardness is really important because it's not a wrongness, it's a rightness. And only the beings that are no longer interested in seeing how much further they can go before they can't move at all, only those beings are really auditable. Everybody else just wants to, I don't know, improve their game a little bit so they can rush deeper in before they turn into glass. And if you recognize that, you can actually help those people optimize their rush a little bit so they can get a little further in. But you know I don't really want to audit those kind of people, even though a lot of them are making a lot of money. I would rather audit the people that want to get out but unfortunately most of the people who really want to get out, or who want to get back to the OKness, are doing so poorly in life because they have waited so long, that they don't have the money to pay for it. Often when you audit people with money, eventually their ethics comes up and they give it back! On the other hand, the very able people who are totally tied up in tar, huge beings in huge tar pits, have their own overts to confront, but they don't have the present time wherewithal to have an auditor pull the withholds or find the correct items of dramatization. So there is this constant conundrum. So hopefully there are some people with some money who are wise enough to recognize there is something wrong with the way things work, and they want to not be part of the problem any more. Because anyone broadcasting seriousness and permanence into the world, that's a psychic storm that is going on in him all the time, 24 hours a day. Everyone he touches, they either agree on their seriousness and their permanences, they establish their sympathies and regrets like Hubbard says in Advanced Procedure and Axioms, or they don't. And if they don't agree, they end up not being friends, because they can't co dramatize together, and if they do they end up being friends. So the guy accumulates around him other people postulating the same psychic storms on the same subjects. So now you have a cluster storm. They may not be together in the same town, but where ever these guys are even on the internet, they are all cluster storming together, with their common dramatizations, permanences, importances, seriousnesses and pains. I mean anybody doing that at all is a part of the problem and not a part of the solution. He falls into defending by offending, and away we go. Cause he is not going in the direction of OKness, of attaining OKness first and power second, he's trying to attain power first and OKness second, or trying to attain OKness by changing things as they are, and ends up in corruption, temptation and seduction and going out ethics and eventually becoming the people he wants to fight. Because when he turned to glass fighting asshole A, well asshole A is not glass. He wins, let's become asshole A! And then he can fight for a while longer. Then as asshole A he becomes glass fighting some good guy, and the good guy is not glass yet, so he becomes the good guy. He keeps changing valences leaving glass valences behind him in the bank. Flip flopping back and forth between good and bad, each one at a lower and smaller sphere of influence than the one he left behind. That's pretty sick, not many people have the guts to behold that, because it totally invalidates their entire life, their entire everything they hold dear is totally wrong. Because the only thing that is really dear is sovereignty, not all this fighting the good fight that eventually ends one up in tar and obsidian glass and crazy glue, buried like sardines next to the very guys one was trying to put out of business forever. Sovereignty is OKness and humor. You know, like, what could never be funny? What is NOT funny! Ooooh, that will go right into what are you not putting there. It's sort of an ARC break process, I don't think Hubbard would ever want to run it, he would want to run 'What is funny?' right? But you are right, I like to go for the ARC break processes just to find the damn items that I am dramatizing. You know, asking me 'What is funny' would produce a comm lag 5 millenia long on me. Have you ever run "What is not funny?" Enid: As a matter of fact it was a process that Ron came up for a case that was not cogniting and he had somebody run this thing on her, and it cracked her case. It doesn't run on everybody. If you were to run a process like this, would you run the negative, the positive or both? What is not funny? What is funny? Alternately? Enid: I would probably alternate. Alternate, OK. Because most people tell me not to run the ARC break side, but run only the ARC side, what is funny. Enid: I don't agree with that because if you only run the ARC side, you get sweetness and light. It doesn't eventually go into the other side on its own accord? Enid: Well the person may drop into it, but more likely they will get an F/N and want to quit. Right. OK. Yes, especially if you stop at the first F/N. So you really have to know the E/P of this thing, which is massive line charges hopefully, but more specifically spotting the core items of seriousness, importance, permanence and pain. And a return of OKness, a taste of that peace that passeth understanding because its Eternal and not temporal. All right Enid, we can do this forever. Enid: OK, for free! Forever for free as you put it! ((Both of us laughing.)) Yeah you bet. OK, till next time. Enid: OK Thank you very much Enid. Bye bye. Enid: Bye. Homer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY homer@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY homer@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com Fri Nov 11 21:13:57 EST 2005