DO ENGRAMS EXIST? If its ok for me to say that the physical universe doesn't exist in actuality but only in virtual reality, then it is just as ok to say the same of engrams, i.e. engrams exist as function but not as structure. The physical universe certainly exists as function, but the meatball thinks it exists as structure too. They see space, so they think there IS space. They admit that the seeing of space is not the same as space itself, and that the seeing of space is but a symbol in consciousness for space itself, but they continue to insist that the symbol could not exist without the referent also existing. To the meatball the existence of the symbol necessarily implies the existence of the referent. The existence of function necessarily implies the existence of structure. Now clearly the existence of function implies the existence of SOME structure, but one can get very lost if one takes one's cue about the nature of that structure from the image shown by the symbol. The conscious experience of space (symbol) LOOKS 3 dimensional, but that doesn't mean actual space (referent) is 3 dimensional! OK, so the same with engrams. The functions described are pretty clear. We have incidents, not-isness, encystment of free theta, resulting in ridges, dispersals, vaccums, mental masses, energies, spaces and times, that don't vanish after the incident is over. The whole idea that a being can take a 'picture' of an event and keep it around as a separate actuality from the event itself is probably pretty odd, but again the functions we can observe and are trying to describe fit well enough with this structural model of a persisting picture, that we have come to use it easily. The main issue here is cause, what CAUSES the being to suffer after a non confronted traumatic event? What causes the being to dramatize and compute psychotically after the scaring over of such an event without full healing? Why does healing involve fully reexperiencing the event in question? Well one can model certain things in the incident after resistence, capacitors and inductors. As the being piles not-isness on the incident, he builds up 'mental' mass on pictures of the event, and this mass has mental resistence so his ability to flow into the event and perceive it becomes less. Further such things also have capacitance, which means that as the being flows into the event trying to stop it, it builds up charge that pushes back. Thus in order to keep the event hidden he has to apply continuous pressure on the event to keep it in place. If he let's go, the charge built up on the event flows back at him, like current flowing out of a highly charged capacitance. Worse such events also have inductance. If he flows into the event to keep it hidden, and then suddenly lets go, the being will be forced to flow MORE into the event, he can't stop flowing for a short while after he tries to stop, THEN he gets the kick back from its capacitance :). One may complain bitterly at the idea that traumatic events ACTUALLY have resistence, capacitance or inductance, but they certainly do act with those functions, and thus we come to talk about circuits in the mind, because in the physical universe, circuits are made of power sources, resistance, capacitance and inductance. In the physical universe inductance and capacitance form a resonant circuit that will oscillate at a resonant frequency. Sure enough, a pc caught in an incident with both capacitance and inductance will be found to be oscillating back and forth at the command of the incident at the resonant frequence. One can SEE this on the meter. By bleeding the incident of all charge, the effects of capacitance and inductance are reduced to zero, by removing the mental masses scaring over the picture, we remove the resistence, and that leaves the thetan in control of the incident again, rather than the other way around. Being dogmatic about function may be stupid but being dogmatic about structure is completely nuts. Not even Hubbard made that mistake, which you will well know if you have read ALL of Hubbard. As for engrams, Hubbard said, when you think engram, think BT. What he meant was that living life forces are involved in the persistence of mental masses and pictures and their restimulation, it ain't made out of "electrons, protons and morons"... :) So in some sense KP is right, there are no engrams as far as structure is concerned. Its all caused by living beings and their postulates. Hubbard also said that the fate of most thetans is to dwindle down to become other's BT's. So thats a fitting fate for KP eh? To become someone else's engram! Homer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink (607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY homer@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com